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A Word in Due Season

ADDRESSING HERESY IN THE NATION – Exposure of C5 Contextualization Pigeonholing Christianity with Islam

In our most recent Shouts of Joy Ministries Newsletter titled “Addressing Heresy in the Fox Valley,” I sited a prophetic word that I received in a vision back in 2007 about Church leaders pigeonholing Christianity with Islam and how God hates the Church doing so. When I received this prophecy I was under the assumption that it was addressing the Church in the U.S. but also in other countries. When the Lord began to speak to me again this past summer about this issue He was directing me to my own back yard. Here in the Fox Valley, Christ the Rock Community Church (CTR) in Menasha, WI, a large Evangelical Church, was hosting a “Jesus in the Quran” conference that is a strong proponent of C5 Contextualization that most definitely pigeonholes Christianity with Islam. I was asked by the Lord to expose CTR’s sin of promoting this heresy and did so in the previous newsletter. Since that time I have been aware of just how prevalent and national this sin has become.

Ministers from outside our area have been in contact with me, sending information regarding the C5 Contextualization in missions to the Muslims  and how the heresy is spreading in some Evangelical and Emergent Churches across the country. The staff here at Shouts of Joy Ministries has been working diligently on researching the topic and gathering resources and information as well. A number of ministries have been mentioned to us and we are in the process of verifying those and getting examples of the extent to which they hold to C5 Contextualization. I will mention the few that I have been able to verify and am posting the documentation on my website in the near future:

  • Wycliffe Bible Translators is promoting “Muslim-friendly translations” of the Scriptures in audio and in print, often behind the scenes, in which “Son of God” and “Father” (in reference to God) is substituted with other language in the name of not misconstruing false ideas to Muslims. One translation exchanged the words “beloved of God” for “Son of God.”
  • Navigators has adopted this approach to minister to Muslims.
  • Fuller Theological Seminary, U.S. Center for World Mission, and IJFM (International Journal of Frontier Missions) promotes these ideas in spite of permitting some voices of dissent.
  • Perspectives, the mission’s course from Fuller Seminary that is used in Evangelical churches throughout the country, promotes this, as well as the spinoff, “Encountering the World of Islam.” They have been using the book titled, “Encountering the World of Islam” in their course.
  • Frontiers, the third largest missionary organization to Muslims, tolerates individuals who use this method. Some Frontiers members are not in Insider Movements. But some are involved. Frontiers has yet to clarify exactly what level of involvement exists.
  • Grace Fellowship Church in Snellville, GA, is the host Church of the “Jesus in the Quran” Ministry and posts their link on their church’s website.
  • Common Path Alliance is an organization that brings together a number of groups that have the common thread of promoting C5 Contextulization.

As I read through the Common Path Alliance website I found many quotes that literally grieved my spirit. Keep in mind these are not quotes from an Unitarian “Coexist-type” Church, or a New Age group trying to unify the world, but from professing Christians, many who are ministers of the Gospel and pastors or ministers to Evangelical Churches.

Quotes from the Common Path Alliance website

Two Graphs Depicting The Straight Path and Abraham’s Two Sons of Mercy
(Refutations of both graphs pending from Douglas Pirkey to be posted on the Shouts of Joy Ministries website.) 

Under FAQ:
Why do some Christians and Muslims try to convert each other?
“If the Holy Books do not talk about converting someone, but rather talk about what the straight path into the Kingdom of God looks like then this should be the focus of Muslim-Christian dialogue.”

Under FAQ:
Doesn’t Jesus teach that people must convert to Christianity?
“Actually this notion is nowhere to be found in the Bible.”

Under FAQ:
Doesn’t everyone have to become a Christian to be saved?
“…the Crusades, immorality, polytheism (some Muslims think Christians worship three gods), western, impure (pork-eating, wine-drinking, loose-dressing), corrupt (politics and movies color the way the world sees the ‘Christian’ west) just to name a few. So if these are some of the connotations associated with ‘becoming a Christian,’ why would a religiously devout Muslim who is submitted to living a life of purity and surrender before God want to become like this?”


“I grew up believing not only that Jesus wanted the entire world to be converted to Christianity; I also believed my responsibility before God was to make everyone in my reach a Christian. That’s just the way it was.

Think about this myth for a second! Can you really believe that this Middle Eastern message of the Good News of Jesus and the Kingdom is owned by Western Christians and that all others around the world must become Christian in order to have eternal life? How haughty we are?

The greatest damage here in this myth is that Christians take on the attitude that they are the only ones who are right and therefore the only ones who will receive salvation from God. The secondary damage from this myth is that missionary organizations actually stir up more persecution than might have been. When missionaries insist on the natives ‘converting’ to Christianity and to denounce their culture, they have the wrong goal.”

A Common Word
by Pastor Jeff Burns

“There is a third path that is an alternative approach that many Muslims and Christians have not even considered: bridge building. This is the approach I have chosen.”

“I love going to the mosque when I can and I have made the reading of the Qur’an a part of my regular life routine…. I have a deep respect for the Qur’an and the character of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).”

Listen to the Prophets
by Pastor Jeff Burns

In this article, he states, “To answer this question we must turn to the revelations of the Prophet Mohammed in the Al-Qur’an and the Prophet Isa (Jesus) as written in the New Testament (Injeel)” equating Jesus with Mohammed and the Bible with the Quran.

In the same article he goes on to state, “The second principle is that God’s heart for Muslims and Christians is that we would walk together as the nearest of spiritual kin. This brings Him great pleasure… It is imperative that we find our common ground in all the Holy Books and rejoice that God has not hidden His intention from us. We must stand together like a family.”

The Eternal Blessing of Ishmael
by Pastor Jeff Burns

“This view of Ishmael is inconsistent with the teaching of the prophet Moses in the Old Testament (TAWRAT) scriptures. We Christians have read the passages on Ishmael through a Zionist lens and have not seen the love, mercy and blessing that God had for Abraham’s beloved first son. I believe that the prophet Ishmael has a very special prominent place in the plans and purposes of God.”

The Common Path Alliance website becomes important here in the Fox Valley because when you click on the button tilted ADVOCATES you come to a series of choices. The top one is titled ORGANIZATIONS. When you click that icon you are offered a video about the Saharawi people. When I listened to it I was utterly surprised to hear the Director of Missions at CTR Janet Lenz’s voice doing the narrative. One reason that this is surprising is because from the pulpit and in multiple meetings with Ministers in the Fox Valley who are questioning if CTR holds to this belief, Bill Lenz is saying that they were in fact only “taking a look at the teaching” at the conference. Many people who attend CTR have also voiced this same understanding. Here is a quote from the blog from one such person:

Comment from “Upset Reader” (posted November 3, 2009):
“I am extremely disappointed at your poor attempt to slander CTR’s leadership. I was attending church during Pastor Bill’s explaination of the church’s training session regarding Commonground. After you conviently cut off the audio clip where he explains that the training session was excellent, he went on to say that CTR leadership did not agree with C4 and C5 Contextualization. In addition, he reread our statement of beliefs.”

I have heard from local Ministers who have spoken to Bill Lenz personally who were told that the leadership of CTR was simply looking into the teaching. He explained that they had brought “Jesus in the Quran” in for leaders of CTR to see what they believed on the matter and so on. This was also the sentiment shared at the Fox Cities Evangelical Minister’s Fellowship. Here is the link to the audio where Bill addresses from the pulpit that they are taking a look at the C4 and C5 model of Contextualization. Note where Bill says, “we are still in the process of investigating and learning about that approach.” However, if you take a look at the Common Path Alliance website that I was explaining earlier, and click on the website link at the bottom of the article that explains the video that Janet Lenz is narrating (, you see the Common Ground ideas being taught again behind the “Build a Bridge” link. Then click on the contribute link in the right hand column as if you were going to make a donation. Here is the place that you make a check to:

Not Forgotten International, Inc.
P.O. Box 324
Little Chute, WI 54140

I wondered if Janet may be the person collecting those checks. Little Chute is a very small Village and I know of no other ministers to the Muslim here in my home town. Also I had asked the Holy Spirit for some sort of undeniable proof that Janet was linked to the C5 teaching if He wanted me to say it publicly again. So, I Googled “Not Forgotten International, Inc. Janet Lenz” as I felt He was leading me to do. This is what I found: docs/2009/gaspd423.doc.htm

Note the quote: “JANET LENZ, Not Forgotten International, Inc., said she had been working on the ground in the camps for 10 years, and would read selected words from more than 750 letters written by Saharawi children who ‘could not speak for themselves.'”

So, if Janet and her organization is the supporter and Advocate of Common Path Alliance, the website quoted above, then how can CTR leadership say that they have simply brought “Jesus In the Quran” in to take a look at C5 Contextualization when they have been a noted Advocate of it for some time? Why is the leadership of CTR denying their affiliation and adherence to this method of missions? If they do in fact know that it is heresy then why have they failed to renounce it both publicly and privately?

Why do they use the pulpit to deflect this extremely serious issue by saying that people are questioning their orthodox beliefs, their statement of faith? Here is another quote from their public relations person on the blog:

Comment from “CTR” (posted August 28, 2009):
I popped over here because Joie has been mass emailing a lot of members and staff, and wanted to clear up a few things for those of you who read her blog. Here is what Christ The Rock Church believes and teaches:
1. There is only One God, that always was and always will be, ever present in 3 divine persons; The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit.
2. We believe everything the Bible says about Jesus Christ. That He is The Son of God, The Son of Man, The Messiah, The Savior of the world, the Hope of the nations, The Lamb of God, The Lion of the tribe of Judah, The eternal I AM, The Prince of Peace, The ONLY mediator between God and man, The ONLY way to The Father, The ONLY way into the kingdom of God, The ONLY way to salvation and eternal life. He is the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End. He is The Prophet, Priest and King. His kingdom will have no end.
Anyone who wants to learn more about our beliefs is welcome to visit our website at, or better yet come to our weekend services.

God’s peace.

CTR’s statement of faith is not in question and yet they keep implying by re-reading and handing it out that it alone answers these accusations. This attempt to deflect the focus from the true contents of the prophecy, and their obvious adherence to the C5 method of missions, and their pigeonholing Christianity with Islam, is very telling. I believe it speaks to the original prophecies that state that Christ is not their Head and it is not His agenda that they are seeking.

When God gave me the prophecy about leaders in the Church pigeonholing Christianity with Islam He simply said that He hates it. He went on to speak to me about what was coming for certain groups inside of Islam. The second time that He spoke to me about this He told me that I would have to prophesy nationally about the issue and He spoke to me about some of the consequences that would come from doing so. The third time He called me to expose the actions of the leaders at CTR and to make it public that they were pigeonholing Christianity with Islam. This past time He told me to rebuke the specific ministries that would be outside my local area but inside the U.S which He would reveal to me through a number of means. Below is the list of those ministries:
Common Path Alliance, Be Their Voice, Jesus in the Quran, Grace Fellowship Church, Brian McLaren, Wycliffe Bible Translators, Navigators, Fuller Theological Seminary, Perspectives (Fuller Seminary Missions program), U.S. Center for World Mission, IJFM (International Journal of Frontier Missions), and Frontiers

Here are the issues that I have found that I believe the Lord has shown me to be acts of pigeonholing Christianity with Islam:

  • When Christians acknowledge Muhammad to be in any way a prophet of God.
  • When Christians acknowledge in any way that the Qur’an is inspired by God or is Holy.
  • When Christians say that a verbal confession of faith in Jesus Christ is unnecessary for salvation they are pigeonholing that Muslim into Christianity.
  • When Christians tell Muslims that they can retain their Muslim identity and be true followers of Christ, even encouraging them to remain Muslim.
  • When Christians say the Shahada (Islamic confession of faith) or tell new believers that they can say the Shahada.
  • When Christians join in the Salat (5 daily prayers) or encourage new believers to do so.
  • When Christians take the pilgrimage to Mecca (Hajj) or encourage new believers to do so.
  • When Christians change any wording in the Scriptures especially to make it non-offensive to Muslims.
  • When Christians share the Gospel of Christ but leave out His death, burial, and resurrection; that He is fully God and fully man; that He is the Son of God; and leave out the need for repentance on purpose so as not to offend the Muslim.

Christ the Rock Community Church and each one of the ministries listed above need to renounce this heretical teaching from their respective pulpits. I am prophesying to you that God hates this. He is calling you to repentance. As I prayed about how to end this article God gave me this scripture:  Ephesians 4:11-16

“And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, for the equipping the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.” (NASB)

Joie Pirkey
Shouts of Joy Ministries


November 5, 2009 - Posted by | Uncategorized


  1. Another great newsletter, thank you Joie. I am most shocked about Wycliffe Bible Translators even rewriting the scriptures to take out references to Jesus being the Son, and God being the Father! I can hardly believe it. I think these Christian ministries have been tempted by the fact that Islam has these tantalizing threads of truth about Jesus, and they have been deceived into thinking they can reach out in this more gentle way to Muslims instead of with the whole, uncompromising truth that is such a stumbling block to them. These ministries, in being so deceived by this, have ended up compromised more and more, allowing that Islam has truth, is another way, that Mohammed is a prophet, that the Quran is from God. They need to see that this is not the way to reach them. Compromise is not the way, only the whole truth in love and power. They need to repent of these things and how far they have allowed themselves to be deceived and to compromise to the point where they are willing to hide certain truths that are fundamental to our faith. God does hate this.

    Comment by Martin | November 5, 2009

  2. Tolerance means coming half way forward and meeting other side.Islam accepts Jesus as prophet,as messiah,with virgin birth and miracles.Bible to contain the words of God(just like most christians believe.But all of the bible is not.Because it contains material that lowers the prophets.Muslims believe prophets of high status people of integrity and character.
    Folks all you have to do is to read Quran for yourself and find out what it is and if it is from God or not.You should not be afraid to read truth.,or word of God.
    So at least there are some christians who reciprocate the same fairness and tolerance.When more and more christians will extend friendship and tolerance world will get better.

    Comment by Ahmad | November 5, 2009

    • Ahmad, do you believe Jesus is the Son of God?

      Comment by Douglas Pirkey | November 6, 2009

  3. You go girl!! Thank you for defending the faith and standing for truth. After studying the book of Daniel in School over the past few weeks, I have been looking for someone who will call LEADERSHIP in this great country to repentence as Daniel did. What a great man of God he was!
    So gifted, so humble, so transparent! Thank you for being willing to stand for the TRUTH of the everlasting Gospel. Believers need to be called to be earnest and trustworthy stewards of the Gospel. The Lord may call you to stand in D.C. as well–who knows, only The Lord! There are so many there who need to hear the word of the Lord–indeed!!! Remember too, the Lord held UNGODLY leaders–unbelievers ACCOUNTABLE TO HIM. You have been intrusted with a great gifting; guard it & treasure the trust that the Lord has put in you, his child. Faithfulness to the Lord will have its testings, but it has many blessings so much more valuable than anything this world can throw at us. Blessings, Afriend

    Comment by Afriend in the South | November 6, 2009

  4. I am wondering if there are folks out there who are reading this who have been to a conference like the one hosted at CTR or who have been dealing with this teaching out in the field??

    Comment by Joie Pirkey | November 6, 2009

    • I heard about something written about Janet on here so wanted to come read it firsthand, and while I was skimming noticed this. Why do you ask? Have we not given you enough attention? I might even invite you to coffee, but I’m not sure you’d realy want to hear about my experiences.
      I checked out some of this back in September, but then got tired of it. Since then I’ve been busy running out of Bibles to give all my interested Saharawi friends, studying our Prophets with them and having great conversations about Grace and Mercy, praying with them in the name of Jesus and seeing Him answer and heal them, and listen to my best Saharawi friend tell me how she got goosebumps as I explained to her the power Jesus has over sickeness, death and demons because He died and was raised again. Guaranteed this didn’t happen by trying to tell them their beliefs were unbiblical.
      As for the whole ‘C5 scale’, I like to take the advice of one of the Common Ground teachers I’ve heard and just ‘throw that out the window’. I prefer to meet them where they are at, ‘become all things to all men’ and share the truth ‘with gentleness and respect’, focusing more on bringing the Kingdom of God to earth than having unneccesary arguments. To reference another teacher, persecution is very Biblical and is to be expected, but we don’t have to die for doing stupid things.
      As one of the above-mentioned ‘folks’ who have attended conferences and have used this out in the field, I’ve only seen these postings as a huge distraction. Not to mention the concern of accessing your blog in Algeria, lest anyone over there read it. Their lives are being changed in part by seeing Christians love each other and them, I’d hate for them to see what we do to each other online. But thank you for the invitation.

      Comment by Sally | January 8, 2010

      • Sally,

        When heresy is confronted within the context of Scripture, even among Christians, it is confrontational, plain and simple. To characterize confrontation as “…what we do to each other online” is to fail to appreciate the biblical precedent of defending the gospel, something no one needs to apologize for. Paul, publicly present with Peter, in the hearing of many, rebuked him for what was essentially an attitude that struck at the heart of the gospel, the message of salvation by faith (Galatians 2.11-21). When it comes to C5, your attitude seems dismissive, but, not even Paul in Athens (Acts 17), with the “mine field” of idols and religious sensibilities in which he found himself, diminished the truth about Jesus. As a matter of fact, having been “preaching Jesus and the resurrection” (v. 18), it was because he was inharmonious that he was invited to the Areopagus to speak further (vv. 19,ff.). There, he explicitly called the Athenians to repentance (v.30). The C5 methodology runs contrary to Scripture even, and especially, pertaining to the potentially inflamatory. Surely our brother Stephen in Acts 7 made that undeniably clear. You might click on the following link; it is to an article I wrote that expands on this issue.

        Comment by Douglas | January 9, 2010

      • Sally,
        I would love to meet and hear about your experiences.

        I am hoping that the Bibles that you are giving out to your Muslim friends are not the ones created by Wycliffe that are a “Muslim Friendly” translation, and have eliminated the terms “Son of God” and “Father”.

        Throwing out the C5 scale does nothing but erase common terminology that simply describes how far the syncretism goes when doing missions. Whether you call it C5 or Insider Movement methodology, the actions, the teaching still is not biblically sound. It concerns me deeply that you, being someone who follows Christs and loves the Muslims enough to reach out to them, would not care about being lead by the Spirit. The Spirit does not lead us to do things that go against the Word of God.

        Last night I was praying about the post that you made yesterday, seen above. There was something that you said that cut me deep in my spirit. As I thought it through and prayed about it I got very angry and had to go before the Lord and ask why, and what was it that I was discerning that was so evil about these few quoted words of yours. Here is what He showed me… You said, and I quote: “To reference another teacher, persecution is very Biblical and is to be expected, but we don’t have to die for doing stupid things.”

        Wow Sally, think about what you are writing here. Think about what you are saying before God and all of His martyrs. Think about Steven in the book of Acts. There he was confronting a number of religious Jews, should he have spewed the Insider Movement garbage about the similarities of their beliefs? No. He said the very thing that would cut them to the quick, and caused them to attack him, even stone him to death. “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.” Was he persecuted for something “stupid”? Should he have spoken in twisted political speak as the Insider Movement teaches so as not to be persecuted unto death?

        What you are taking in as logical and good teaching is nothing short of blasphemy and heresy and deeply offensive to the people this world is not even worthy of (the martyrs).

        Comment by joiepirkey | January 10, 2010

  5. “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.”

    Matthew 7:24-25 (New International Version)

    Is your foundation on the rock, who is Jesus Christ?

    Comment by Mary Jo | November 6, 2009

  6. Would sure like to have Christ the Rock church come clean. Either denounce this stuff completely, or tell people you think it is pretty good on the whole. Obviously their is more involvement than merely “exploring” this and their continued involvement with C5 contextualization groups show that the fact that they “don’t agree with everything” is more of a way to put off people with concerns than an honest assessment of their embrace of this teaching.

    Comment by Call me crazy | November 7, 2009

  7. I heard, but have not received a recording, that CTR has spoken about these issues again last week from the pulpit. However, they have again pointed to their statement of faith and did not answer the questions posed to them. From my perspective, God simply asked me to prophecy that they were pigeonholing Christianity with Islam and to tell the people that they were doing this and then tell the people that God hates it. What I find the most disconcerting is the response from the people and the leaders other than Bill and Janet. Why are the leaders protecting this teaching? And why are the people protecting the leaders? Why not just expose what is true, just put it all out there on the table, and repent of what is in error and move on?

    Comment by Joie Pirkey | November 7, 2009

  8. Oh man you guys I have been hearing testimonies from Missionaries on the field who have come into contact with organizations teaching this C5 stuff like the Jesus in the Quran people who are with CTR this week in Africa. It is horrible! I will try to get some of them to post, but it is far worse than I had thought. No wonder God is ticked.

    I am literally blown away.

    God help the Muslims who have converted to Christianity and are now being persecuted by Christians who have been taught this garbage.

    Comment by Joie Pirkey | November 10, 2009

  9. Ok, I read some of the Quran and this is my favorite Surah s fa.

    Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah and to their husbands), and guard in the husband’s absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband’s property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.

    Most of what I read is definitely not from God, so if it’s not God, then who is it from?

    I noticed several things, it attacks two things in Christianity, that of Jesus being divine the son of God and the trinity, so Satan is attacking those things which show to me that they are true, and also I saw several tactics that cults often use to keep their followers obedient and never question anything, also keep them afraid of “outsiders” influence.

    Comment by Tanya | November 10, 2009

  10. Some things I found in an article by a Muslim who converted to Christ:

    Quotes from:
    The Islamic Challenge to the American Church

    September 20, 2006
    Elijah Abraham

    The Facts (about Islam):

    The following are some real teachings of Islam:

    (Surah: is a chapter from the Qur’an)

    Men are superior to women (Surah 2:228

    Women have half the rights of men: in court witness (Surah 2:282) and in inheritance (Surah 4:11).

    A man may punish his wife by beating her (Surah 4:34).

    A man may marry up to four wives at the same time (Surah 4:3).

    A wife is a sex object for her husband (Surah 2:223).

    Muslims must fight until their opponents submit to Islam (Surah 9:29).

    A Muslim must not take a Jew or a Christian for a friend (Surah 5:51).

    A Muslim apostate must be killed (Surah 9:12).

    Stealing is punished by the amputation of the hands (Surah 5:38).

    Adultery is punished by public flogging (Surah 24:2).

    Resisting Islam is punished by death, crucifixion or the cutting off of the hands and feet (Surah 5:33).

    Fate decides everyone’s eternal destination (Surah 17:13).

    Every Muslim will pass through Hell (Surah 19:71).

    Heaven in Islam is the place where a Muslim will be reclining, eating meats and delicious fruits, drinking exquisite wines, and engaging in sex with virgins (Surah 55:54- 56) & (Surah 52:17,19).

    Muhammad’s Teachings. (Vol. = Islamic Traditions Volumes)

    1. Women

    Women are deficient in mind and religion. Vol. 3:826

    The majority of people in hell are women. Vol. 1:28, 301; Vol. 2:161; Vol. 7:124

    Women are a bad omen. Vol. 7:30

    Women are harmful to men. Vol. 7:33

    2. Human Rights

    Islam is to be imposed by force. Vol. 4:196

    A Muslim must not be killed if he kills a non-Muslim. Vol. 9:50

    Ethnic cleansing is practiced. Vol. 5:716

    3. Eternal Security

    No Assurance of Salvation. Vol. 5:266

    God punishes a deceased if his relatives weep. Vol. 2:275

    When you speak badly about a deceased, the deceased will go to hell. Vol. 2:448

    Holy War (Jihad) is a guarantee to go to heaven. Vol 1:35

    These are some of what Muhammad taught which should give you an idea that Islam is not a religion of peace, forgiveness, and hope, as Muslims would like the American people to think. Islam is very aggressive in evangelizing the west. Muslims are mission minded just like the Christians with the support of the oil rich countries. Islam is infiltrating in US universities under the umbrella of tolerance and understanding.

    Comment by Joie Pirkey | November 10, 2009

  11. So what of the Muslims who claim to not hold to these beliefs? Are they like a Christian for example who state to be one but do not really believe or follow the actual teachings of the Bible?(they go to church now and then..and they think they are “nice” people) Not being facitious here…Really, what do they then believe? Are they picking and choosing? Seems like they may not know what they believe if they aren’t following Muhammad faithfully. If Muhammad taught that Holy War is a guarantee to go to heaven… and Islam is to be imposed by force…and resisting is punishable by death…I don’t even know what to say. It’s crazy. Oh…but most don’t believe this way? Why not? And would they admit it if they did? Especially if they are intent to harm? Seems like if there are indeed many “lukewarm” Muslims in this country, it is a growing mission field right here. But I imagine they face opposition from family and friends…being ostrisized(sp), physically harmed, money cut off, etc…. We need to pray!!

    Comment by KT | November 12, 2009

  12. Dear Joie and KT
    Islam is not interested in evangelising.Muslims don’t want to convert people but want to convey message of Islam because there is only negative side of the picture is projected on the media.
    Muhammad didn’t teach that holy war is a gurantee to heaven.As a matter of fact the word “holy war” is not in Quran to begin with this word Jihad is mistranslated into holy war because it is considered by christians or westerners as equivalent to “holy war” which is crusade.But word Jihad means only to strive to improve self or others for the betterment of society.Means if I want to become more in education,or in getting better is dealing with others is also Jihad.Prophet Muhammad said the best Jihad is to control self in anger.But the anti muslim media will never present it because there is no juice here.WHy tell a good side of the story about Islam or muslims.Very sad.

    Comment by Ahmad | November 12, 2009

  13. “But the anti muslim media will never present it because there is no juice here.WHy tell a good side of the story about Islam or muslims.Very sad.”

    Ahmad, above, when he said that, wasn’t kidding. But what he is doing is what he has done on this blog’s threads; he is deflecting the truth about himself and Islam. If Muslims don’t like the news about them, the commission of terrorist acts, like recently at Fort Hood, why don’t Muslims stop those acts instead of blaming media for simply reporting what Muslims do. Political correctness is a mental straight-jacket that Ahmad attempts to force onto our minds instead of taking responsibility for his own.

    Comment by Douglas Pirkey | November 13, 2009

  14. I received this in an email yesterday and will be posting and sending out articles on the Insider Movement this week.

    “Insider movements claim the desire to avoid syncretism, but this is trying to close the barn door after cows have already gone. Its divided loyalties, deceptive religious practices, poor theology, and separatist impulses such as a redundant Muslim-background Bible all indicate movement away from a biblical understanding of faith rather than a biblical movement to Christ. How can someone who believes he is a true Muslim attend the mosque, consult the Qur’an, and acknowledge Mohamed as God’s prophet, all of which contradict the core of biblical teaching, without being mired in syncretism?” Basil Grafas

    Comment by Joie Pirkey | November 15, 2009

  15. I just absolutely love Jesus! My God I love Him!

    Comment by Joie Pirkey | November 16, 2009

  16. Hello there.

    Comment by peter | December 24, 2009

  17. Test

    Comment by Douglas | January 28, 2010

  18. Joie,
    I read through this thread and have been reading various stuff on the Insider Movement. You are a deeply sincere and thoughtful person who cares passionately about Jesus, about truth and about the gospel. That is evident and I do not doubt it in any way. Nevertheless, I simply want to register a calm and polite vote that your whole tone of denouncing heresy, naming names, judging hearts and motives and speaking for the Holy Spirit doesn’t resonate with me. Frankly, I wonder what a Roman Catholic blog post would have looked like during the very messy and contentious period of the Protestant Reformation. I’m sure there would have been a lot of Roman Catholic denunciations of heresy that would sound exactly like what I am reading here.
    I am deeply committed to Scripture in every imaginable way. I come from a conservative evangelical holiness background, graduated seminary, served as a missionary and am ordained. I do not take scripture, the gospel, doctrine or the imperative to “guard sound doctrine” lightly.
    However, much of what I read directly from the Insider Movement is compelling to me. Parts of it disturb me and I think needs a measure of correction and accountability, but not denouncement as heresy. I am not trying to make points or convince you of something. I am simply saying that there are many of us in the middle of this conversation who are attracted to the loving, thoughtful, incarnational contextualization of the C-5/Insider type approaches. I love to read what you’ve written here, but I frankly ignore all of the denouncements and finger pointing and attempt instead to distill what your most valid points of critique are and let that contribute to my own ongoing formation of mission. In other words, I filter out all your accusations (it’s like I press “mute”) but still listen for valuable points that are hidden beneath all the debris of condemnation.
    I genuinely trust that you think you have been called to speak the way you are speaking and I can respect that. But it just sounds so similar to what I imagine Roman Catholic authorities would have been yelling at our Protestant forefathers hundreds of years ago. And they were wrong…
    So, here I am just listening to many voices and trying, amidst all the noise to hear the voice of the Spirit: through the Word, through the Church and in my heart.
    May Christ be glorified

    Comment by Jared | December 14, 2010

    • Jared, I wonder what you think of Paul then, who called out, by name, no less than 4 separate false teachers, who had infected various churches of his time. We are to identify and separate from such as these, that they not bring down the church and that they are led to repent.

      Comment by Craig Doriot | December 10, 2011

  19. I feel that your research into these areas of belief of any group promoting “insider” or whatever “C5 Contextualization” is in need of more citation. I would also like to address some of these areas based on my understanding of what these “heretical” groups are promoting:
    * When Christians acknowledge Muhammad to be in any way a prophet of God. – If a Christian were to acknowledge that Muhammad were a prophet in any way, it would be in that he pointed a group of people back to the Scriptures and Jesus. Any surface level reading of the Qur’an will lead you to understand this sentiment. However, nobody ever stated that Muhammad was without sin, much like Moses was sinful or Martin Luther was sinful (my best off-the-top-of-the-head example of a post-Jesus prophetic voice for the Church).
    * When Christians acknowledge in any way that the Qur’an is inspired by God or is Holy. – No member of these movements would state that the Qur’an is inspired by God… any statement of its holiness would be in reference to the Muslim’s belief, not one’s own belief (i.e. calling it the Holy Qur’an out of respect, not out of belief)
    * When Christians say that a verbal confession of faith in Jesus Christ is unnecessary for salvation they are pigeonholing that Muslim into Christianity – This has never been a requirement of a person desiring to follow Jesus, however a Muslim follower of Jesus would state that they believe in Jesus’ provision of salvation for them.
    * When Christians tell Muslims that they can retain their Muslim identity and be true followers of Christ, even encouraging them to remain Muslim – If a Jew can retain their Jewish identity (Messianic Jew), then why can’t a Muslim do the same? Sounds like this is a new law like circumcision for a Gentile… which the Jerusalem council stated was unnecessary. (Acts 15)
    * When Christians say the Shahada (Islamic confession of faith) or tell new believers that they can say the Shahada – I have no idea where this idea is coming from…
    * When Christians join in the Salat (5 daily prayers) or encourage new believers to do so – If a Christian were to pray five times a day, would he then be considered a Muslim? What does praying a certain number of times have to do with one’s religious affiliation?
    * When Christians take the pilgrimage to Mecca (Hajj) or encourage new believers to do so. – Christians are not allowed in Mecca.
    * When Christians change any wording in the Scriptures especially to make it non-offensive to Muslims. – You read a contextualized Bible, even if you read the KJV. Bible translation is an art form birthed out of understanding the context of a people group, in order to help the truth sink into the hearts of men and women who would not understand the original Hebrew and Greek.
    * When Christians share the Gospel of Christ but leave out His death, burial, and resurrection; that He is fully God and fully man; that He is the Son of God; and leave out the need for repentance on purpose so as not to offend the Muslim. – The Qur’an itself testifies that Jesus died and was raised again to life, sits with God, is the Word of God, is born of Mary and the Spirit of God, and that anyone who denies this is in danger of the fires of hell. It would do us well to seek for more understanding and to use the tools already in place than to ignore that the foundations of this good news are already in the pages of the Qur’an.

    Again, it would be helpful for you to cite where these ideas you have about what these “heretics” are teaching come from.

    “I am the Good Shepherd, I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father, and I lay down my life for the sheep. And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd” (John 10:14-16).

    God’s ways are not our ways, and he is way beyond this argument about how to reach other people with the Gospel. You don’t have to agree with methodology, but calling something heresy is going too far on this. If we all spent more time loving our neighbors and less trying to divide the house, we would all be better examples of what it means to follow Jesus in this world.

    Comment by J Robert Eagan | June 19, 2011

    • And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. Eph 5:11

      Comment by Craig Doriot | December 10, 2011

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