Joiepirkey's Weblog

A Word in Due Season

Ichabod

The Lord has been speaking to me about a number of different issues that I have been compartmentalizing in my thoughts: the “Insider Movement,” “Seeker Sensitive,” “Social Justice,” the “Emergent Church,” and “Prosperity Gospel” to name several. I have been seeing these issues as separate and distinct from each other and have been praying about them, prophesying about them, and doing some research as time permitted. But this past week at the prayer group called “the House of Prayer” the Lord began to reveal to us how each of these issues that the modern day Church is dealing with are inter-connected in that they are manifestations of the same foundational sin. This sin is not allowing Christ to be the Head.

Nearly ten years ago the Lord began to speak to me about a time of shaking that would occur in the churches in our region here in northeast Wisconsin. He told me that He was about to begin to remove a large number of ministers that were not allowing Christ to be the Head of the Church. As this time of shaking transpired the prophetic words that I was receiving began to veer in different directions, or so I thought.

The Lord spoke to me about Church leaders pigeonholing Christianity with Islam. He revealed that this is what a method of missions called the Insider Movement was doing. He told me that it was spreading quickly and then asked me to prophesy publicly that He hates this.

He spoke to me about the Seeker Sensitive method to church growth and ministry and how that belief system was avoiding the cross, repentance, and the need for a savior. Seeker Sensitive methodologists are saying that they are building bridges to the lost. But the Lord told me that these bridges are actually overpasses. He said that they are the symbol of not allowing Christ to be the Head. These so called bridges are actually overpasses to get over the cross. To overpass the cross is to overpass Christ.

He spoke to me about something called “Social Justice”. He told me that He is not involved in this work and to stay clear of it. He also told me not to take it into my thought life and not to consider it regarding missions or evangelism. He said that the way in which it is “sold” is deceptive. Assisting the poor and repressed needs to be directed by the Holy Spirit not by the logical deduction of man. Like the woman who poured the expensive perfume on Jesus’ feet, the disciples rebuked her for not selling it and giving the money to the poor, but Jesus was pleased with her action. Giving needs to be directed by the Holy Spirit.

He spoke to me about the Emergent Church and how at its foundation it holds a humanistic world view. He said that people embracing this movement are relativeizing truth.

Last night the Lord showed me that each of these seemingly separate issues were all manifestations of the very thing He had been speaking to me about in the beginning: Not allowing Christ to be the Head. When men step out from under His Headship they begin to create philosophies, methods, and ministries out of their own ideas, logic, and flesh. This lack of Headship has created a very weak, ineffective, and unholy church. It has created a mongrel.

At the House of Prayer, as we spoke about these issues, I found it difficult to address the topic without a name. We prayed about a name and the Lord led us to the name Ichabod.

* I Samuel 4:21 – And she named the child Ichabod, saying, “The glory has departed from Israel!” because the ark of God had been captured and because of her father-in-law and her husband.

When the Body of Christ removes itself from being under the Headship of Christ, it is a mongrel and the glory of God leaves it. It is headless. Ephesians 4:14-15 speaks directly to this:

* “Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.”

It is the Christian who refuses to be tossed about by new teachings and whims and crafty ways of deceiving others, and who chooses to simply speak the truth in love, that matures into submission of Christ’s Headship.

But when the “Insider” deceives the Muslim with his cunning ideas, and the politically-correct pastor misleads the “seekers” with crafty teachings, they move themselves out from under the Headship of Jesus Christ. Thus resulting in Ichabod and the glory of God departs from them.

When the “Prosperity Preacher” “claims a new car” instead of the cross he is to pick up and carry, he moves himself out from under the Headship of Christ.

When the “Emergent Evangelist” agrees with the homosexual that he was born with this sin and can bring it into a relationship with Christ, he has removed himself from the Headship of Christ.

These ideas are spreading through the Body of Christ and they are generated by man and not by God.

God has been explaining to me how these philosophies are wrong and in what ways they are connected to the same source, how they all result in Ichabod. What He is asking me to do is to expose this sin for what it is, of not allowing Him to be the Head, and to warn those who seek to please Him to avoid these “winds of teachings.” He is asking those who have an ear to hear to pray for the Body of Christ that is being beset by such immaturity. He is asking us to put on the Armor of God.

* Ephesians 6:11-18 – Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.

He is calling us to stand firm and speak the truth in love. If we cower back and allow these teachings to silence us, we become advocates of not allowing Christ to be the Head. Our voice of light is paramount in darkness. Our stand is integral to the advancement of the Kingdom of Light. We are soldiers called to fight against principalities of darkness, and we fight with a sword of the Spirit, the Word of God. I am prophetically calling you stand! To take up your cross and follow Christ as your Head! To press on to the high calling of God in Christ Jesus by speaking the truth in love as you grow up in all things into Him who is the Head, that is, Christ.

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June 2, 2010 - Posted by | Uncategorized

31 Comments

  1. Joie you are so right.If christians follow only Jesus christ then there is not any difference between Islam and christianity.Jesus taught Oneness of God and himself as being a human.He taught that no one will lift weight of other or he taught how to pray,Oh God forgive our sins as we forgive those who sin against us.Both these statements are against later invented concept of “original sin” and dying on cross for human’s sins.He taught the injeel(Book given to him by One God that he wrote in Aramaic being himself a learned man(Unlike Muhammad) yet neither the text is intact and nor the Aramaic anguage and the injeel written by him was destroyed by his enemies under the leadership of Paul.His enemies did everything to even destroy any trace,any link through Language.Jesus taught “Don’t eat pork”,He abluted while praying,He fell on his face while praying like Muslims do.He was circumcised.Yet one of his staunchest enemy Paul who never saw him after his disappearance appeared from nowhere and claimed a vision and then became head of his disciples and perverted his teachings.Sadly what is being practiced today has nothing to do with teachings of Jesus.
    Joie one day sit down and go only over red letter in bible ,make two cloumns on a big paper and on the top write on one,”Clear,and unambigous” and on other write “unclear and ambigous” and write whole red letter writings in any of these cloumns then prefering red letter over sayings of other than Jesus and the clear over ambigous what you will see is nothing but ISLAM.How then you say that ISLAM is against christ.Islam supports and respects,reveres and loves christ, yes but it doesn’t put Paul above christ what christians do.Sorry we can never put Paul above christ.
    Islam and muslims are natural allies of Jesus and his teachings.

    Comment by abdus | June 2, 2010

    • Abdus,

      Do you believe Jesus is the Son of God?

      Comment by Douglas Pirkey | June 6, 2010

  2. From Martin on Facebook string::
    “Social justice includes things like opposing abortion, as well as helping the oppressed and the needy. They are important, but I think Joie’s message is that whatever ministry it is, Jesus has to be the head of it. It has to be directed, empowered, motivated for and by God. In the area of social justice parts of the church have become humanistic and ended up having a social justice gospel, making it the whole point of their religion to make the lives of others better in this life. Jesus isn’t the head if they exist for man rather than God, even if they do good in the world. But caring for the poor and oppressed is showing God’s love to them, and goes hand in hand with preaching the gospel.

    We are to do everything in the name of Jesus, for his glory and his will. The difference between a worldly cause that does good, and God’s cause that does a similar good, is that we do it for God and by his power, led and directed by him, having him as our head.”

    Comment by joiepirkey | June 2, 2010

  3. Islam is to me the Pale horse…the worship of the Moon god, Allah.
    Catholicism is the White horse…the worship of Mary.
    Capitalism/Mercantilism is the Black horse…the worship of Money
    Socialism/Communism is the Red horse…the worship of Man.

    There can be no commonality between a real Christian and any of these. When the Moon god is integrated with Mary, Money and Man, the four horsemen of the Apocalypse will be ready to turn on Israel. They are already turning on spiritual Israel…the people of God. Daily, the news paints physical Israel in a bad light…when the world turns on her, it will feel justified.

    Hang on. We’re in for a ride.

    Comment by Stuart | June 2, 2010

  4. Stuart,to compare the Islamic faith with moon God or pale horse is to belittle a great faith,the only that is intact,its teachings, its book.And thats why it is growing in following in the world in west and in US.
    If you believe what you do and it is without any reasoning and logic just because you were born in it is fine but doesn’t carry social understanding forward because it is just like you are proud of your color or the estate of your family etc.
    In todays time we have to study the other faiths,other philosphies,other values to understand and build bridges of tolerance.
    Israel is a country with its plus and minus.So far it is draining US of its dollars and dumps headaches,insults and problems due to its association, in return, thanks to people like you.

    Comment by jay | June 2, 2010

  5. Jay,

    I find it interesting you only have an issue with the part Stuart said about Islam.
    You said in this day we have to study other faiths, (Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth and the life, NO MAN COMES TO THE FATHER BUT BY ME.” No other faith teaches that, either Jesus was lying, or he was telling the truth.)
    Here is something for YOU to study:
    http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-moon-god.htm

    Ray

    Comment by livingfortruth | June 3, 2010

    • Ray have you heard of a word”propaganda” that means lieing with art and repetitions to achieve a political goal.
      If there was no propaganda (like when human race was new) then there will not be much discord or fights.There is lot of propaganda against everything west doesn’t like or considers in the way of its exploitation.Christianity is a system designed to exploit people as well.Image white Jesus?WHat tool can be more powerful than this to create inferiority complex among non whites.You qoute bible as if it has not been victim of propaganda.It has gone through major revisions read the preface of any bible,NIV,KJV,RSVetc,etc.My question to you:are these major revisions by GOd himself that he forgot something earlier and then agains couldn’t recollect all?I mean use your common sense.It is about time to check and correct your own belief system rather than pointing fingers on others.

      Comment by jay | June 3, 2010

      • Jay,

        Let me ask you something, the Bible was written in 66 books over 2000 years with over 30 authors. Muslims consider the Bible scripture. I would say that God set up a standard there. Now consider the Koran dictated by ONE MAN, this is OUT OF God’s normal way of giving man scripture, thus is suspect. The Koran is SCIENTIFICALLY FLAWED in that it states that a man’s “SEED” is created in the mans upper abdomen.
        “Now let man but think from what he is created! He is created from a drop emitted-Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs,” (Qur’an 86:5-7).

        This is PATENTLY FALSE and unscientific. Making it NOT God’s word.

        Want to know propaganda? Trying to say that it means that the testicles drop from that area in a male fetus, (again this is not the case) to get around the obvious flaw.

        So you also doubt the writings of Aristotle, Plato and Socrates? Their extant writings number in less than 1000 copies, the Bible in the 10’s of thousands.

        Your arguments thus far seem a little thin.

        Comment by livingfortruth | June 3, 2010

  6. I received this today in Church newsletter:

    This morning I received Joie’s newsletter in my email in which she summarizes the prophecies the Lord has given her about the interconnectedness and seriousness of the various manifestations of our tendency to not truly allow Jesus to take his place as the head of His church. (You may read them here: http://www.shoutsofjoyministries.com/InJesus/Ichabod.shtml). I would strongly encourage you to go and read what she wrote, and then spend significant time in prayer over the message it contained. This is a pervasive problem in our culture today and it is infiltrating all segments of the body of Christ – and it is growing – even those who claim to be “Bible believing.” My own heart ached after reading it.

    Significantly the challenge today is that the spirit of the Age has intertwined an overemphasis on human dynamics to release God’s breath of life within the church with a new doctrinal measuring stick: Tolerance. In other words, let’s explore all sorts of ways to “make the Kingdom happen”, perhaps even re-envisioning what we have understood to the Bible to mean. However, what we must never do – according to this philosophy – is say, “such and such an approach is sin” as that draws lines in the sand and disturbs our peaceful journey of exploring these new concepts and philosophies.

    Case in point is Brain McClaren, an “evangelical” pastor from the east coast. Brian has postulated that we can accept the Bible as God’s word. However, what is important isn’t teaching what God’s Word says, but helping people as they “explore” this for themselves – with few doctrinal measuring sticks or road marks. For example, Brian has encouraged the church to read the passages about hell metaphorically and has postulated that people from all faiths might indeed go to heaven. A couple years back he said that evangelicals needed to pause, pray and contemplate – but not speak about homosexuality in terms of morality. Rather we need to further explore science, genetics and re-think the Bible on this matter.

    Pardon me, but isn’t this relativism repackaged? There is only one way to heaven – faith IN the person of Christ. Not all paths lead to the same place. And yes, we in the evangelical community need to get involved and become committed to loving and ministering to those struggling with homosexuality. They need to know we care. (And we haven’t done this well at all.) But to pause and contemplate – and refrain from speaking? I’m sorry – but God has given us a definitive word here. A decision to not speak it not optional – God has already given His definitive word. Homosexuality is sin. The day we stop speaking the truth is the day we make a gospel where sin doesn’t require a savior. We preach a gospel without repentance. And that is a gospel straight from hell.

    Just yesterday I had a pastor say to me, “Tim, there are significant groups – even major theologians – who are discussing whether one can be a Muslim and follow Christ all at the same time. Join the conversation! You don’t need to speak so strongly or specifically against it. It is only your opinion this is heretical.“ (He said this in spite of the fact that Mohammad denies Jesus divinity, death, burial and resurrection.) What was he saying? He was saying that to call this blending of Christianity and Islam wrong, to decry the “exploring” of such nonsense to be an entire lack of discernment, such efforts create conflict between Pastors and churches and are therefore are surely “not of God.” After all, we need to re-think the Bible on this. And drawing lines in the sand creates disharmony, which God wouldn’t condone.

    Beloved, can you imagine when significant numbers of Pastors in a community decide that getting along is so important that we should “not rock the boat” on these issues, even though God speaks clearly about such false teaching in his Word? What happens when Pastors no longer blow the trumpet out of a desire to simply not create conflict? What happens is the body of Christ holds hands and merrily goes along…as they are swept into deception – all as the Shepherds who God has entrusted to “guard the flock of God” do nothing to warn the body of Christ about “the conversation” that even evangelical leaders are now engaged in…and embracing. Heaven help us. When the Pastors are saying that “getting along” dictates that we must not blow a clear trumpet call to warn the body…make no mistake the body of Christ in that place is in GRAVE danger.

    Beloved of God, this is serious. It is happening. This isn’t isolated to one church here or there. It isn’t isolated to our community. This is so pervasive within the church in America today that I venture to say that at one level or another, between 1/3 to 2/3 of all evangelical churches in America are buying into it. Even churches that aren’t practicing a specific manifestation of these practices often refuse to speak up, because they are afraid to rock the boat, having bought in to the lie that says that “getting along” is more important than blowing the trumpet to guard the flock of God.

    This morning, as our elders were praying about and discussing these things, Michael Vanderaa shared this passage. It is a timely word and I believe lays out a timeless prophetic benchmark. While it specifically speaks to the shepherds, it is a warning for all of us about the danger of what we are talking about here.

    2 “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel; prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Woe to the shepherds of Israel who only take care of themselves! Should not shepherds take care of the flock? 3 You eat the curds, clothe yourselves with the wool and slaughter the choice animals, but you do not take care of the flock. 4 You have not strengthened the weak or healed the sick or bound up the injured. You have not brought back the strays or searched for the lost. You have ruled them harshly and brutally. 5 So they were scattered because there was no shepherd, and when they were scattered they became food for all the wild animals. 6 My sheep wandered over all the mountains and on every high hill. They were scattered over the whole earth, and no one searched or looked for them.

    7 “‘Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the Lord: 8 As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, because my flock lacks a shepherd and so has been plundered and has become food for all the wild animals, and because my shepherds did not search for my flock but cared for themselves rather than for my flock, 9 therefore, O shepherds, hear the word of the Lord: 10 This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against the shepherds and will hold them accountable for my flock. I will remove them from tending the flock so that the shepherds can no longer feed themselves. I will rescue my flock from their mouths, and it will no longer be food for them. Ezekiel 34:2-10

    This is one of the reasons I absolutely believe that the prophetic word Joie lays out here is from the Lord. It resonates Biblically. It calls the church to repentance and back to a fidelity to Jesus which is desperately needed. It draws the line in the sand precisely where it must be drawn – and completely in accordance with Biblical truth. It calls God’s Shepherds to stand and answer the call of God that is on their lives to lead in accordance with the King’s directives and to take a stand for truth. Yes, there is a time for unity and reconciliation. No we don’t want to squabble about petty differences. But there is also a time – when the nature of what we are talking about is significant and serious – to blow the trumpet. To draw the line. To set fire to the earth. This is such a time.

    I would like to highlight a couple of sentences from Joie’s article in conclusion. These are especially important as they demonstrate how this sin subtly but significantly changes the gospel:

    “He [God] said that they are the symbol of not allowing Christ to be the Head. These so called bridges are actually overpasses to get over the cross. To overpass the cross is to overpass Christ.”

    Yes, a gospel without the need for repentance (which the cross requires). A gospel without a mooring in Biblical truth. This is indeed the fruit of not allowing Christ to be the Head of the church.

    Please feel free to pass this along to your friends.

    In Christ,

    Tim

    Comment by joiepirkey | June 3, 2010

  7. You talk about God setting a standard in letting a book written over 2000 years,66 books and 33 authors.And muslims believe that bible to be a scripture.
    Well Mr/Ms Livingfortruth even learned christians and jews don’t consider bible to be a scripture as it stands today.ANd this sect of aetheist proves that.It was only when it was given.And the standard is not what you say.Standard is that God sends a prophet to help corrupt and evil people live a peaceful life and he is given divine guidance over a time accordingly as the events turn up.So was Injeel and was Quran.Quran is the only book in whicThe prophet guides people and lives life as a model as God wants people to live.In Quran God claims “We have send it(Quran) and we will guard it against corruption”And it is the only book that has this claim and has been guarded against corruption.Has any other book been?Which other divine book is memorised by millions of people?.Guidance means it should be available when there is need.
    Now about scientific flaws.Quran has many references to embryology besides to other disciplines of science.Professor Keith Moore is world renowned professor of anatomy and embrylogy and lives in canada.He writes, he was surprised to find references to human development in Quran which could never be confirmed except microscope which didn’t exist in the time of Prophet Muhammad.He writes that this is enough confirmation that the revelations in Quran must be from God only because Muhammad was an unlettered man.His famous book”Developing Human” is a masterpiece on the subject.
    As far as seminal fluids coming from between rib(lower )and backbone, refers to from area of around the kidney and it is true.
    Well let us go to another scientifc research done by a French surgeon,Maurice Bucaille who studied both bible and Quran from purley scientific perspective to prove in them what is wrong.He writes in his famous book “The Bible,the Quran and Science” that though there are references in Quran to many disciplines but he couldn’t find even one statement contradicting modern science.You can order his book from Amazon.com.And it doesn’t end here there is still more research going on on this subject.
    So Mr/Ms Livingfortruth,Live for truth.It is only according to bible if you believe in it.

    Comment by jay | June 3, 2010

  8. Jay,
    I am not out trying to condemn Islam. I am speaking to those who are Christian who are telling Muslims that they can be saved through Jesus Christ and remain in Islam. When a Christian speaks to a Muslim about Isa and fails to explain that Isa is the Son of God so that the Muslim is not offended He is lying to this man. If a person, or any spiritual being, cannot say that Jesus is the Son of God then He can not enter into the Kingdom of God. For any Christian to deny this or to ‘sell’ Jesus with out this attribute is to lie. This is a saving truth and you cannot be right with God and deny it. That is orthodox theology for every Christian. Tolerance that you so often call for can be given and love also can be given but not with lies. Then it is not tolerance, nor is it love, it is simply self serving deception. So, for me, Jay, which I know is not your real name, I do care enough for you to tell you the truth even though I know you do not agree. For me, and for Jesus it is the only way of love.

    Comment by joiepirkey | June 4, 2010

    • JOie,
      First I am honored and thank you that you replied me directly.Muslim will not be offended if you speak truth and support it with the sayings of Jesus(not of Paul and others)because muslim believes in One God the creator of this universe and also of Jesus.So muslim believes that God for love to his creation sent different prophets to different people(areas)and at different times with same message of Islam which basically means two things,believe in one God(only on this basis can whole mankind be together as one brotherhood)and doing good deeds and justice to others,(this is the only way to guarantee peace).So muslims have to beleive all the prophets with respect and love(otherwise we don’t believe in one God)Prophet Muhammad came for all mankind and for all times nor will any prophet come after him nor will any divine book come after him.Don’t forget all prophets including Jesus(pbuh) said themselves they came either for a certain people or a certain time and all divine books have mention of coming of last prophet Muhammad in different wordings.While Quran says as did Prophet Muhammad that they have come for all people and all times.
      My point is only one that if all faiths believe in one God at least(no partners,no son,no associates) then a tolerance can be created based on genuineness.
      I will repeat what a great muslim scholar Dr.Zakir Naik has said,that if you can show me where Jesus(pbuh)himself said in clear and unambigous terms that “I am God or worship me”I will become christian.Dr.Zakir Naik is a scholar of comparative religion,christianity,Judaism,Islam ,Hinduism,Budhism.He can be see on peacetv.tv on internet and you can see his tv live on internet,click on right top where it says watch Peacetv live.Only will knowledge you will be able to talk effectively with others,may be thats why it says in Isiah,come let us reason together.
      Just as you said that sincerity is necessary in good relationship so is necessar in our relationship with our creator.He says make no partners,there is one God,Jesus says the biggest commandment is There is one God.I find myself in full agreement with it.You remain christian and I muslim but we can still unite against the evil that is devouring our society ie.homosexulaity,corruption,breaking of families,divorce,mental disorders due to self worship.
      Thank you again and God bless you.You and Doug have both good souls.
      Truly.
      Jay(which you know is not my real name,Oops sorry again problem with sincerity.)

      Comment by jay | June 4, 2010

      • Jay,

        If I understand you here, you say you will become a Christian if one can show you where Jesus himself claimed to be God. I’ll take the challenge.

        Jesus made that claim quite clearly in John 8:58. Here is says, “Before Abraham was born, I am.” This claim is a claim to the very name of God given back in Exodus 3:14 where God reveals his name to Moses: “I Am” or Yahweh. The Jews knew this and this is why they then tried to stone him, as they considered this claim blasphemy.

        As for worship… Jesus, after his resurrection (which did happen BTW), appeared to the disciples and it says that Thomas referred to him as “My Lord and My God.” (John 20:28) Now, that is both worship…and an assignment of deity. It is interesting that Jesus accepts both this worship and this claim. So…you must conclude that Jesus is either a sinner in receiving this – or He is in fact God who deserves worship.

        We also find Jesus being worshiped in Matthew 2:11, Matthew 14:33, Matthew 28:9, Matthew 28:17, Luke 24:52, and John 9:38. Again, either Jesus is incredibly sinful for letting people worship him (and at that point must be rejected – not only as God, but even as a prophet from God)…or else He is who He claimed to be…and who the gospel’s claim him to be.

        John 1:1. In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was God…. 14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

        Jay, I’ll look forward to your profession of faith in Jesus the Messiah, Lord, God, Savior of the World.

        Join us as Christians in holding to the truth and rejecting the falsehood of Islam which denies what the injil clearly teaches.

        Comment by running the race | June 4, 2010

  9. Jay,

    So, you do not believe the Bible is true? What about the 10 commandments?

    Comment by livingfortruth | June 4, 2010

    • My buddy Living for truth,
      Bible is in its entirety not true it has some statements that are true and unchanged but others are changed as is proved by different editions,revisions and alterations that you see.There are contradictions in it.Just google “Awake sep,1957” and you will come to a page which says there are 50,000 errors in bible.I don’t say this number,Awake magazine says it.So when you read bible you don’t know this particular statement is true or an addition by some zealot or enemy of christianity using cover of scribe.
      Now Do I believe in 10 commandments,sure I do.They are also written in QUran.There is no contradiction between Quran and bible except where bible contradicts itself.You show me the Injeel that was given to Jesus and was written by him even in museum and I will believe it.
      Now coming back to previous point that seminal fluid comes out from testicles which are between rib and backbone.YOu said it is unscientific.I couldn’t explain enough so I do it now.
      Male sperm is miniscule in size( 1 ml of fluid contains millions of sperms) that naked eye can’t see it it has cell with computer chip that tells its cells to separate into different kind of cells like forming bone,flesh,skin ,nails and hairs,eyes,brain intestines etcetc in proper sequence.All praise is due to Allah the creator of this universe and surely ALlah says in Quran.Don’t you see my signs?Don’t you ponder how this very complicated human came into being?.Now similarly these cells not only do different work according to their cell nature and computer chip in them but also there location changes from one place to another.Testis are made in area around kidney but then move on through abdomen to inguinal canals to scrotum i.e.the pouch for the testis.But though they are all 100% formed in around kidneys as Quran specifies but not all reach to scrotum.E.g.in premature boys they are in abdomen and after time come in inguinal canal and then in scrotum.Therefore due to its 100%presence from starting point it is mentioned in QUran as you mentioned.
      Now in Quran it also says “We made ears and then eyes”Modern science confirmed it now.1400 years ago when Quran was given to an unlettered man called Muhammad there was no science and no microscopes.
      Now coming to Socrates.He was a great scholar of his times but his many statements today look absurd.Like he said human being from birth is a full human being only in miniscule size with all his head,legs,ears,arms etc.Today we know it is wrong.
      So my friend read Quran it wouldn’t hurt you,read analytically,pause and even try to find mistake.We muslims don’t talk about believe without proof.Quran says,ponder,analyse,think and then accept.
      God bless you.
      Jay.

      Comment by jay | June 4, 2010

      • Jay,

        Semen is not produced until a male has went through puberty. The “drop” of semen which is used to create a human WHEN COMBINED WITH THE EGG IN A FEMALE does NOT descend from the upper abdomen. It is REACHING to say that it does. The Koran states the drop is emitted from between the rib and backbone. This is FALSE. It says what it does, you may not like the implications of what it says and therefore try to change it’s meaning, but that does not make it true.

        You state that the Bible is full of errors, and the Koran is totally scientific.

        I hope you are an honest seeker of truth, and that you will actually study to show yourself approved unto God. That you will earnestly seek the the path of truth, no matter where it leads you.

        Here are several links to websites showing unscientific Koranic verses.

        http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2009/03/scientific-flaws-in-quran-shooting.html

        http://www.islam-watch.org/SyedKamranMirza/Quran-contradiction-flaws.htm

        I will say, Jay, or whatever your name is, (My name is Ray), trying to use a CULT (awake magazine is put out by the Jehovah’s witnesses, which is known as a cult, and whose founder was a fraud to prove distortions in the Bible is quite comical, To say the least.

        Comment by livingfortruth | June 4, 2010

  10. Great revelation, regarding Ichabod…. the headless horseman.

    On 5/8/08 the following poem came to me, which I prepared “centered.”

    When center, it makes a pictogram of a man in a robe with no head, i.e. the headless body of Christ.

    The Body of Christ Heist
    By Robert Winkler Burke
    Of inthatdayteachings.com
    Copyright 5/18/08

    I speak of epic deeds,
    and far greater misdeeds,
    in the wayward body of Christ.

    I speak of great love lost,
    but far greater fortunes gained,
    in the wayward body of Christ.

    His appearance has disappeared,
    replaced by Judas priests,
    in the body of Christ heist.

    They will never, ever know,
    who has come and who does go,
    these first idols bound to be last.

    Comment by Robert Winkler Burke | June 4, 2010

  11. Amen, Joie, Amen!!!

    A headless body is a shocking thing to behold!

    When Church De-Coherence Is Not Retarded
    By Robert Winkler Burke
    Of inthatdayteachings.com
    Copyright 6/04/10

    When church de-coherence,
    Is not retarded,
    The good of God is stopped,
    And bad started.

    When truth is given,
    The middle finger,
    The lions devour,
    They do not linger.

    Cycles of vacation and deliberate denial,
    From God’s reality,
    Make convenient lies to sheep necessary,
    And death to fealty.

    Church brains died,
    Generations ago,
    When what’s due comes,
    They’ll proclaim, None could know!

    When nothing in church is more important,
    Than maintaining a lie,
    God lets evil rise up, prayer impotent,
    Until the self-blinded: cry.

    God gives history,
    No guarantee,
    Anything it takes,
    To set us free.

    Comment by Robert Winkler Burke | June 4, 2010

  12. To
    Running the race.
    Flatly speaking your comments don’t deserve answer because you are not answering the questions I raised that if you can show me “IF JESUS HIMSELF SAID IN UNAMBIGOUS AND CLEAR WAY THAT I AM GOD OR WORSHIP ME”…….
    You are giving me explanations not proofs.You are interpreting his statements in your desired way.
    Let me clarify the difference between EXPLANATION AND PROOF.
    E.g.You see me going out of a bar one evening and you go and tell my family Oh,Jay drinks because I saw Jay coming out of the bar.This is EXPLANATION.While if I am taken to the doctor or hospital and they do the alcohol level test or breathalyser and it is positive then that is PROOF.No one can deny that.
    All of the christianity is thriving on EXPLANATIONS,two people can interpret one statement two different ways.This is very important for you to understand more than any muslim or non christian because it is this beating around the bush when some confused christian asks any question about christianity then that person gets disheartened and leaves christianity because he gets explanations over and over but no proof.Christians are becoming Hindus,Muslims,Budhists and yes the biggest group is atheist.
    YOu answered and qouted reference John 8:58,
    Now you should know that prerequisite of Jesus is like all human beings,they all had spiritual preexistence.This prereexistence doesn’t reflect divinity.
    ABout John 20:28 you write Thomas said “my Lord and My God” after seeing Jesus after so called resurrection.Well this is a statement of surprise.If you hear any strange news you will say My God,My Lord.Wouldn’t you?This means nothing more than that.
    May I request you to please first study christianity and then other faiths if you want to be in evangelisation business.
    God bless you and guide you to the truth.

    Comment by jay | June 4, 2010

    • Jay,
      You seem to be writing differently. The statement you explain John 20:28 with is out of Jehovah’s witness literature, again, they are a cult. The interpretation you give is EASILY dis-proven. What you are saying is “God” would have been used flippantly by Thomas, which if he had done so, Jesus would have REBUKED HIM SHARPLY for, seeing as Jesus did not, either your interpretation is wrong, of Jesus was not a prophet of God.

      Ray

      Comment by livingfortruth | June 4, 2010

      • Dear Mr/Ms Livingfortruth.
        See the relgion is a serious business,we should see events with impartiality to reach to a truthful conclusion not with emotions.Because in the end we have to reach to God and answer for our sayings and our deeds.
        Now coming to Thomas.You seem to believe that this saying of Thomas is enough to prove that Jesus was God.My point is that Thomas said this out of surprise.We can find if he did because of surprise or not by this counter question.Did Thomas before the so called resurrection ever called Jesus”my God,My Lord”?Did others call Jesus as”My God,My Lord”?.
        Think yourself,think alone.

        Comment by jay | June 5, 2010

  13. Jay,

    Saying “My God” is a modern and western response to surprise. It was not used in the ancient near east. When you read your modern assumptions into the text, you can come to any conclusion you want. Seems to me you are the one coming with the assumptions.

    Comment by running the race | June 6, 2010

  14. Jay,

    Saying “My God” is a modern and western response to surprise. It was not used in the ancient near east – at least not that I have found. When you read your modern assumptions into the text, you can come to any conclusion you want. Seems to me you are the one coming with the assumptions.

    Comment by running the race | June 6, 2010

  15. Mary called Jesus her savior, I call Jesus my savior, I am praying that Jay calls Jesus His savior.

    Comment by joiepirkey | June 6, 2010

  16. Running the race,
    Is saying “My God” modern and western response to surprise as is saying “Son of God” taken literally in meaning while in ancient east it only meant “righteous”,”Pious”.Check it out.Thats why bible has many people called as “son of God” Like one christian scholar said “bible has sons of God by tons”.Even today if you go to any muslim,middle eastern country any older person can call a youth as my son,but it doesn’t mean biological son.Or a youth may call to an elderly as like my father.
    But you didn’t answer why did not Thomas use these words any other time besides the one so called resurrection and why the others around Thomas not call Jesus”My God,my Lord” nspite of spending good time with Jesus(pbuh)

    And Joie,
    You should pray instead “that Oh creator of this universe guide me to the truth.Read Quran,the only unchanged divine book, then you know the truth.
    God bless you.

    Comment by Jay | June 6, 2010

    • Jay,

      The following is important for you to embrace:

      “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life” (John 3.16).

      Jesus Christ, the Son, makes it possible for you and me to become sons:

      “He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
      And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth” (John 1.10-14).

      Jay, repent: God loves you!

      Comment by Douglas Pirkey | June 6, 2010

    • I gave you some links which show how unscientific the koran is, also it is NOT preserved pure as you try to imply. Please read from the following link.

      http://www.4truth.net/site/c.hiKXLbPNLrF/b.5305633/k.3B6/Has_the_Quran_Been_Perfectly_Preserved.htm

      Thanks,
      Ray

      Comment by livingfortruth | June 7, 2010

      • Ray,
        Let me introduce myself,my name was Jay(when I was christian)but I was very uncomfortable with what I knew was christianity.The more I studied it the more I got questions and the more I asked the more confused I got with the answers and also made the pastor mad who because of himself being on shaky ground couldn’t answer.All he was offering were explanations,stories and no proof.Then I thought of Islam but I didn’t want to ask any muslim for the fear that he may try to convert me.So I decided to study Islam myself and I started from where, these anti Islam sites,in a way it was good that then I was looking to the answers to the questions raised here.When I read the sites on Islam then I found answers and rest by speaking with muslims.These sites will lead a wanting christian to correct sources.
        Ray,the only religion today that is unchanged on this planet and therfore can be said as”God made” is Islam,its book is unchanged.About your criticism on the authenticity of Quran,just visit “the deen show” on google,it is pretty informative,about authenticity of Quran see the video of Dr.Mamdouh Mohamed.Islam is the only religion which has an intact system of reference and counter check as the biography and the sayings of prophet are intact.Today there are many religions but though they came from same One God but today due to changes they have gone due to arrogance of its clergies,or greed or desire to control , what is practiced today has reduced it to be a “man made” faith.
        You don’t have to be muslim.There is no coercion but You know about the correct sources of Islam when at the day of judgement you will be asked questions about who do you worship or who is your God and what is your faith and you will start blabbering about the man made faith you are following then the first one to abondone you will be Jesus(pbuh) because what you name as his faith has nothing to do with what he taught.He said there is only one God.Word trinity is not written in bible anywhere.Bible is changed beyond recognition,there is bible for every sect,every bible has been revised many times.
        God will forgive all sins except associating partners with him.Islam is the only religion that worships One and only God.You have time now to realise and change.Tomorrow it will be too late.
        May God give you guidance.

        Comment by jay | June 7, 2010

  17. I have been following this blog and have seen muslims writing or someone sympathetic to muslims.I think this is great that this blog has diversity among readers.But the exchange of ideas is not very educational or fact based.I think you should answer them educationally to keep it challenging and interesting.But this is the greatness of our nation that we exchange ideas of all kind.

    Comment by James | June 6, 2010

  18. Praise God! Thank you so much for sharing what the Lord has revealed to you by His Spirit. The Lord is going to restore order and function to His church very soon.

    The end time harvest of souls is near and the Lord is cleansing and purifying His chosen vessels to do His work in these last days.

    Joel 2:23-26

    “Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month. And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the vats shall overflow with wine and oil. And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you. And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed.”

    Comment by Tyrone Palmer | June 12, 2010

  19. Have at it James! 🙂

    Comment by joiepirkey | June 14, 2010


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